<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1546</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/21/99 6:01:09 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1546<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: Scumbags (was: chicks with guns, and 3I porno)<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: SF Trav Game<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1545<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Canada<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: the north american union<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1542<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1543<BR>
Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:49:52 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Kurt wrote:<BR>
>Not a Canadian, but IIRC it was a Native American word/phrase 'Kanata' or<BR>
>some similar spelling that referred to a local landmark.<BR>
<BR>
Not the old "Your Finger, You Fool" designation again?<BR>
<BR>
"Kangaroo" is supposedly one Aboriginal dialect's "I don't know".<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:52:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:27 AM 12/21/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Really?  Me too!  Where?  I live across from the Women's Building, you can<BR>
> >see all the murals from my living room window.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah.  Where my Pub *used* to be until the Women's Building folk managed to<BR>
> convict a bar of domestic abuse.<BR>
> <BR>
HUH????   Are you serious?  I thought the lease just wasn't renewed<BR>
because they wanted to put in a child care instead.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry for your loss, and I understand that it was an old respected<BR>
place... but I have noticed that there are no longer SUV's parked on our<BR>
sidewalks *every single night*, directly under the "No Parking" signs.<BR>
One night I came home and there were three SUV's parked in the cul-de-sac<BR>
at the end of our side street right in the road-- if my building had<BR>
caught fire I'd have lost everything because the fire engines would never<BR>
have gotten in.  Nobody who owned a car on our street (Bird Street) liked<BR>
the Dovre because you had to get home before 6 PM if you wanted to park<BR>
your car.  I have never owned a car, but my ex did.<BR>
<BR>
Not picking on your club in particular, but there are just too many bars<BR>
in this neighborhood.  If only they'd closed the Albion instead.  I have<BR>
to walk past it every morning to get to the bus stop to go to work-- it<BR>
always smells like a blasted urinal.  I don't think it's the homeless<BR>
people because it's right outside the bar and not all over the rest of the<BR>
street...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:53:31 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Scumbags (was: chicks with guns, and 3I porno)<BR>
<BR>
>That's correct and was what I meant, even if I didn't express it properly.<BR>
>The point was that finding said weapon added greatly to the chance of a<BR>
>successful prosecution because the police knew the scumbag had an illegal<BR>
>weapon, and the jury had an inkling that the "defendant" couldn't be all<BR>
>that honest if he had an illegal weapon.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Call me ignorant (because I am, living way out of the CON US), but surely if<BR>
all firearms were illegal, then finding any kind of gun means you can peg<BR>
the guy for carrying an illegal weapon. And then the jury are pretty damn<BR>
sure the "defendant" can't be that honest.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:54:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Earth while the rise was at it's worst. Almost everywhere else<BR>
> > built dikes, Egypt and Siberia couldn't afford to and got wet instead.<BR>
> <BR>
> I am silent.  Silent as a mouse.  My lips are sealed.  I will say nothing<BR>
> lewd.  I think nothing lewd.  My mind is a pure crystal of cleanliness and<BR>
> rectitude.<BR>
> <BR>
LOL, Kenji!  Where's the pod?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:00:01 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
"David J. Golden" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 07:30 am 12/21/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >William writes<BR>
> >>Quite literally, it was a PR coup for the US; while merchant<BR>
> shipping to<BR>
> >>and from the US may have been slowed to a trickle (some blockade<BR>
> running<BR>
> >>did occur), it did not prevent the US from projecting force on the<BR>
> seas,<BR>
> >>all the way to Tripoli. This last is memorialized by the new branch<BR>
> of the<BR>
> >>US military which was raised due to the war in their hymn: "From<BR>
> the Halls<BR>
> <BR>
>         New in 1812? ISTR the Marines claim to predate even the<BR>
> constitution, having been raised by the Continental Congress 'long<BR>
> about 177x or so ...<BR>
<BR>
Yup.  10 November 1775, in the Tun Tavern in Philadelphia (now you know<BR>
why the Marine bar on S:AAB's SARATOGA was called the Tun Tavern!).<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, the US Army was formed (as the Continental Army) on 14 June 1775. <BR>
I don't know about the swabbies or zoomies....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:00:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>AFter the fighting began<BR>
>somebody decided adding Canada to the wish list would be a good idea.  Since<BR>
>that venture failed America of 1812 came oput with at worst, a draw.<BR>
<BR>
This clearly isn't true; the invasions of Canada were among the first<BR>
military actions of the war. (If the US *wasn't* planning on invading Canada,<BR>
what exactly did you think they *were* planning at the start of the war? To<BR>
stare at the British until moral outrage forced the UK to surrender? Even the<BR>
US was surprised by US naval successes, but everyone realized those<BR>
successes also couldn't be sustained inevitably - by the end of the war<BR>
almost no US superfrigate was in battleworthy condition.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:03:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav Game<BR>
<BR>
> Ok then a quick nose count then...<BR>
><BR>
> 1. How many of us are there now in the Bay Area?<BR>
<BR>
Mountain View, but time is a luxury I do not currently possess.<BR>
I might make Baycon, if I'm lucky...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:08:46 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips discussion of now-closed pub in San Francisco>><BR>
> <BR>
> Not picking on your club in particular, but there are just too many bars<BR>
> in this neighborhood.  If only they'd closed the Albion instead.<BR>
<BR>
Well, this just ties in neatly with the War of 1812 thread.  "Perfidious<BR>
Albion", indeed!<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, during our T:2K campaign a couple of years back, our referee<BR>
generally referred to the French as "the ancestral foe."<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:01:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>Until the last line I was thinking "Who is this person, and why are they<BR>
>saying he had John Delancy's role?" Now I realize it's the Bond Q, not the<BR>
>star trek Q.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    The Bond Q came first, BEFORE the Star Trek Q, so to me the ST Q is<BR>
related to the JB Q, because is JB's Q did not have the power of the ST Q,<BR>
then how did he come up with those wonderful toys?<BR>
    And, its John De Lance.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:01:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>Until the last line I was thinking "Who is this person, and why are they<BR>
>saying he had John Delancy's role?" Now I realize it's the Bond Q, not the<BR>
>star trek Q.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    The Bond Q came first, BEFORE the Star Trek Q, so to me the ST Q is<BR>
related to the JB Q, because is JB's Q did not have the power of the ST Q,<BR>
then how did he come up with those wonderful toys?<BR>
    And, its John De Lance.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:05:52 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
Kiri wrote:<BR>
> On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> > Russell B lives in the sunny Mission district of SF.<BR>
> <BR>
> Really?  Me too!  Where?  I live across from the Women's Building, you can<BR>
> see all the murals from my living room window.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, we walk by there regularly on our way to Bi-Rite for overpriced<BR>
groceries. I live on Hill St, just off of Valencia between 21st and <BR>
22nd. <BR>
<BR>
> > > 3. Availability<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nope. Work is evil.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Yes, but if you are looking for a game one presumes you might be able to<BR>
> show up once in a while...?  Maybe after the holiday craze has subsided?<BR>
<BR>
Well, this is highly dependent on my success in getting my SO into <BR>
Trav. The plan of attack is for me to run a one-on-one game with her,<BR>
see if I can get back in the swing of GMing, see if she gets into it<BR>
(she used to play a little D&D eons ago, so the indications aren't too<BR>
bad), and if that happens, then, well, gaming is a mutual hobby and <BR>
therefore something we can spend time together on. <BR>
<BR>
Between her work schedule and mine, any hobbies that reduce our time <BR>
together are frowned upon. <BR>
<BR>
- -R<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:17:13 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>Kurt wrote:<BR>
>>Not a Canadian, but IIRC it was a Native American word/phrase 'Kanata' or<BR>
>>some similar spelling that referred to a local landmark.<BR>
><BR>
>Not the old "Your Finger, You Fool" designation again?<BR>
><BR>
>"Kangaroo" is supposedly one Aboriginal dialect's "I don't know".<BR>
>- Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
    I've heard that "Kangaroo" was Kunringai for "There he goe's!"<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:27:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1545<BR>
<BR>
Kenji said:<BR>
>I am silent.  Silent as a mouse.  My lips are sealed.  I will say nothing<BR>
>lewd.  I think nothing lewd.  My mind is a pure crystal of cleanliness<BR>
>and rectitude.<BR>
<BR>
<Butthead> Huh, huh-huh, huh...you said "rectitude" </Butthead><BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:30:48 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Dear Folks -<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Kurt wrote:<BR>
> >>Not a Canadian, but IIRC it was a Native American word/phrase 'Kanata' or<BR>
> >>some similar spelling that referred to a local landmark.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Not the old "Your Finger, You Fool" designation again?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Kangaroo" is supposedly one Aboriginal dialect's "I don't know".<BR>
> >- Hyphen<BR>
> <BR>
>     I've heard that "Kangaroo" was Kunringai for "There he goe's!"<BR>
<BR>
And here I was, thinking that "kangaroo" was Sylvesterese for "really,<BR>
REALLY big mouse!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:40:21 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Canada<BR>
<BR>
Is it just me, or are the Canadians on the list starting to sound like<BR>
Chekov on ST:TOS?  Everything is: "Yes, I've heard of this, it was<BR>
invented in Halifax!"  So far we've apparently trounced the US, provided<BR>
the world with most of its actors, and invented basketball.  What next? <BR>
"You've never heard Shakespeare til you've heard it in the original<BR>
Canadian, eh?"... <BR>
<BR>
This is all a little embarrassing.  You see, we Canadians don't normally<BR>
talk about Canada out loud in public where foreigners might hear us. <BR>
Certainly not with any pride or anything like that.  It's kinda like Brits<BR>
with their emotions or Americans with Chuck Woolery...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.  (damn, two OT posts in a row!  Time for my lines...<BR>
<BR>
I will stick to Traveller-related topics on the TML.<BR>
I will stick to Traveller-related topics on the TML.<BR>
I will stick to Traveller-related topics on the TML.<BR>
[snipped 96 lines]<BR>
I will stick to Traveller-related topics on the TML.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:49:34 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
<BR>
> Aargh! I missed that ... you realize this means they're not allowed<BR>
>to make any more Bond movies. Not that the recent ones really count<BR>
>anyway (gag).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I liked the recent one & they do have a replacement for Q waiting on the<BR>
wings.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:46:57 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
At 16:52 -0500 21/12/99, "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<On the subversion of the US by Canada you responded><BR>
<BR>
>Don't forget we gave you football and basketball<BR>
<BR>
No you didn't, you gave them that strange game with body armour, a <BR>
rugby ball and commercial breaks, and basketball.<BR>
<BR>
*We* (the UK) gave them football, which is always played with a round <BR>
ball, 22 men and a referee, in halves.<BR>
<BR>
At 18:41 -0500 21/12/99, Peez wrote:<BR>
>	Let's not start a "who invented basketball" flamewar, OK?<BR>
<BR>
Oaky, I'll start a football one then.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dom <TIC><BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:07:00 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>>Don't forget we gave you football and basketball<BR>
><BR>
>No you didn't, you gave them that strange game with body armour, a <BR>
>rugby ball and commercial breaks, and basketball.<BR>
><BR>
>*We* (the UK) gave them football, which is always played with a round <BR>
>ball, 22 men and a referee, in halves.<BR>
><BR>
>At 18:41 -0500 21/12/99, Peez wrote:<BR>
>> Let's not start a "who invented basketball" flamewar, OK?<BR>
><BR>
>Oaky, I'll start a football one then.<BR>
>Dom <TIC><BR>
<BR>
    That's right, the English invented Football . . .<BR>
. . . the Australians show them how to play it.<BR>
    Jim L.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:24:46 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>You say the british started by conscripting (funny, we yanks called it<BR>
>kidnapping...hhhmmm) people and blocking US shipping (By lethal force force<BR>
>at times I might add) but the US starts the war...interesting logic.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.....I've looked back over this thread, and it's interesting to note the<BR>
number of "How can you even THINK the Brits won this war" posts coming from<BR>
US addresses (and the number of "No, the Brits/Canucks won the war" posts<BR>
coming from UK/Canada addresses).<BR>
<BR>
Is it really so important to attach 'won' and 'lost' labels to a war?<BR>
There's really no such thing - there's just the state you're in before it<BR>
starts and the state you're in when it's over. All else is spin for the<BR>
plebs.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, there's the matter of national pride....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:50:08 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: the north american union<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:<BR>
> In the last century, we have had countries that were at war with<BR>
>each other become steady friends.  Why?  Does anyone see the 3I ever<BR>
>becoming friends with a polity that they had a war with?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There's always the Regency/Aslan accomodations post-Collapse.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:07:00 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
>And no matter what else, a hundred tons is still a hundred tons, the bare<BR>
>minimum to be a "Star Ship".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There is a 55-ton canonical jump boat.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:16:37 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>No you didn't, you gave them that strange game with body armour, a<BR>
>rugby ball and commercial breaks, and basketball.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<Giles> I've always found it odd that a nation which prides itself on its<BR>
virility feels it has to strap on forty pounds of body armour just to play<BR>
Rugby....</Giles><BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:17:34 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>    That's right, the English invented Football . . .<BR>
>. . . the Australians show them how to play it.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure I remember somebody saying that Aussie Rules football is like a bar<BR>
fight. Except that in a bar fight you get to have a drink.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:44:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
Regards apparent coastline changes in the Northern Hemisphere some of it, I<BR>
wouldn't want to argue how much, given enough time could be put down to<BR>
continuing albeit slow eustatic rebound from the offloading of the last<BR>
round of continential glaciation.  Any Quaternary Geologists on the list who<BR>
know the rate of rebound in say, New York, and would care to predict how<BR>
long it is expected to continue?<BR>
<BR>
Dan Dan the Sediment Man.<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 7:00 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > Earth while the rise was at it's worst. Almost everywhere else<BR>
>> > built dikes, Egypt and Siberia couldn't afford to and got wet instead.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I am silent.  Silent as a mouse.  My lips are sealed.  I will say nothing<BR>
>> lewd.  I think nothing lewd.  My mind is a pure crystal of cleanliness<BR>
and<BR>
>> rectitude.<BR>
>><BR>
>LOL, Kenji!  Where's the pod?<BR>
><BR>
>Kiri  =)<BR>
>***************************************************************************<BR>
***<BR>
>Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
><BR>
>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
>Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:38:50 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
>>And no matter what else, a hundred tons is still a hundred tons, the bare<BR>
>>minimum to be a "Star Ship".<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>There is a 55-ton canonical jump boat.<BR>
><BR>
>Nick<BR>
Is there any more info on this vessel? I've been thinking about Jump Capable<BR>
Life Boats.<BR>
    Jim L.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:42:07 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>>    That's right, the English invented Football . . .<BR>
>>. . . the Australians show them how to play it.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm sure I remember somebody saying that Aussie Rules football is like a<BR>
bar<BR>
>fight. Except that in a bar fight you get to have a drink.<BR>
><BR>
>NB<BR>
<BR>
    Urrggh [Insert Snort-of-Disgust sound effect], not Aussie Rules (or<BR>
Aerial Ping-Pong) but real Footie! The game where the mighty Aussies<BR>
regularly thrash the Mother Countries lacklustre efforts.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:47:37 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1542<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 99-12-21 11:52:53 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< My guess is (if you can take the I:E map seriously) that there hasn't<BR>
 actually been any huge rise in sea level, but that there *have* been some<BR>
 massive hydrological-engineering projects which have submerged certain<BR>
 areas.  Why Egypt and Siberia?  Your guess is as good as mine. . . >><BR>
<BR>
John Harshman's fault. To create a body of water in the aformentioned places <BR>
for the purposes of ameliorating the climate. Don't trust the coastal <BR>
contours too closely. John's original map was skewed to fit the hex grid and <BR>
then re-drawn by a geographically-challenged graphic artist.<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:47:38 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1543<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 99-12-21 13:36:07 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< BTW, I only skimmed the thread on Zhodani and Vilani races, but it occurs<BR>
 to me that just about every pic I've seen of either of these groups<BR>
 portrays a white person.  Did they have suns with lower UV or something?<BR>
 Or do we just have to accept that it's a marketing/artist's bias kinda<BR>
 thing?  Actually, the latter seems like the necessary explanation, as<BR>
 most Solomani are portrayed as white also... >><BR>
<BR>
It has changed nowadays (well, a little), but 20 years ago unless you told <BR>
them specifically (and very specifically), an artist would draw a causcasian. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
Don't do a demographic analysis of the US from TV sitcoms either...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:57:20 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/21/99 11:51:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Variations in skin-tone are diminished, with very pale and very dark<BR>
> people being rarer, but race is far from being eliminated due to<BR>
> back-lashes against homogenization.  Still, the dominant ethnic conflicts<BR>
> are between Solomani (when they arent' quibbling amonst themselves) and<BR>
> Vilani/Mixed individuals.  (All IMTU IMO, comments welcomed)_<BR>
<BR>
I suspect the best way to put this is to claim that the major "racial"<BR>
differences once visible among Terran humans still exist, but that most<BR>
fine distinctions have gotten blurred out of existence over the millennia.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, there's been 3,000 years of opportunities for people who *really*<BR>
want to cling to their ethnic identity to emigrate, rather than trying to do<BR>
it cheek-by-jowl with all those foreigners. . .<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, I only skimmed the thread on Zhodani and Vilani races, but it occurs<BR>
>  to me that just about every pic I've seen of either of these groups<BR>
>  portrays a white person.  Did they have suns with lower UV or something?<BR>
>  Or do we just have to accept that it's a marketing/artist's bias kinda<BR>
>  thing?  Actually, the latter seems like the necessary explanation, as<BR>
>  most Solomani are portrayed as white also...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, given the usual distribution of stellar types in canonical material,<BR>
most inhabited world *do* suffer a UV deficit.  All those itty-bitty red dwarf<BR>
stars.  Not even I would offer that as a handwave in this case, though :-).<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1546<BR>
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